E158: The Importance of Building Relationships in Business Deals with David Green

[00:00:00] Ronald Skelton: Hello and welcome to the How2Exit podcast. Today I'm here with David Green. He is an investor and entrepreneur from the other side of the pond. He's from Europe, right? Thank you for being on the show today.

[00:00:11] Let's talk about your than a lot of people. You emphasize the relationship, rapport differently than a lot of the other people. You lead a group in one of our, networks of entrepreneurs where you're helping facilitate or encouraging people to do joint ventures and stuff. So give us your origin of how did you get in the doing deals kind of story? 

[00:00:32] David Green: So, in December of 22, I actually jumped on and did the Harbour club. I saw it advertised. I think I saw it advertised on Tik TOK if truth be told. But I had bought a couple of businesses prior to doing that.

[00:00:45] The interesting thing for me when I did the Harbour club, is it in some ways it validated, a really good deal I did when I bought business. I bought a business, just before COVID for no money down and all deferred, and everyone told me, you can't do that. And I did it. But it also highlighted how badly I did a deal as well.

[00:01:06] So it was terrific for me to do that and go through that process. But what I've, since I got busy with it in,in January of this year, I've closed, I think I've closed five deals, but I haven't, the only thing I've paid out is I paid 5, 000 pounds for a business that they wanted.

[00:01:25] I think about 70, 000 pounds. As a distressed business that they were going under, but everything else, no money down deals. And I was having, I started, having lots of success with, cause I've got an infrastructure from my own businessportfolio. And so sourcing deals and sourcing opportunities, I should say, started to come, relatively easy.

[00:01:49] I started the group to give other people a chance to get on the ladder. And it, what dawned on me really quickly is, the most important thing in this whole process was missing. People had, perhaps the way a deal should be written out in terms of, equity split. So the documents, they had that. They were given tips on how to maps, perhaps a resource, but I've literally had, I've lost count with the amount of people that have said to me, is there a script of questions?

[00:02:20] Of how you communicate or how you get to a point of around a table of now we're doing a deal? I said, listen, it's insane, think about what you're saying to me. I said to this one guy on my show, don't mind me asking a personal question. I'm guessing you're married.

[00:02:35] He said, yes. Great. Let me ask you, at one point, you'd have had date one with your soon to be wife. Or your future wife. Can you imagine getting to date two, if after you'd bought a drink, you had to pull out of your blazer, a series of questions in how to talk to her. She'd have run a mile and she'd have been mad if she didn't.

[00:02:56] It doesn't work that way. Just talk to somebody. And it's a massive, I think it's a massive problem in what stops people getting from, I found an opportunity and then taking that opportunity to a potential deal.

[00:03:11] Ronald Skelton: There's a lot to be said. Absolutely. There's a lot to be able said about being able to just have a casual conversation with anybody and being able to read that person and understand where that person needs and wants that conversation to go.

[00:03:24] I've seen cases where, people that are very good with just chit chat and starting conversations and, building rapport over time, they lose a deal also because they get an alpha on the phone who just wants to get down to brass tacks of things. You got to be able to read the room, right?

[00:03:41] So you got to know who you're talking to, what are they trying to get to and communicate with them in a way that, makes sense to them and gives value to them. And,too many times people don't even listen to each other. Somebody will start saying in three or four words into what they said, the other person's already got their gears turning on how they're going to respond to the first three or four words of what was said.

[00:04:02] So there's an art to active listening. 

[00:04:05] David Green: There is an art to it, and it should not be stressed how important it is. Look, what we do, if it was easy, everybody would do it. So it's definitely not easy. Then you have to go into the realms of probabilities. I'm a sort of being a bit of a big backgammon player and I've been playing for over 40 years. And it's a highly mathematical game.

[00:04:27] And so when you play something like that, you learn over the years, the art of probabilities. In some ways, very similar in as much that if it's a really hard thing to do, any strategy you can use to increase your chances of doing a deal is better than not taking those opportunities and taking advantage of it.

[00:04:46] And so if anyone, in anyone's personal relationship, friend, partner, whatever. In the norm, in a normal, stereotypical relationship, there would have been a really reason why that relationship took off. And became successful compared to relationships that died away. Every one of us on this planet would have had a friend that is now no longer our friend.

[00:05:09] A colleague that we, get on well with at work, compared to someone we don't get on well with. Why is that? What is missing in and what was successful in that link? And what was unsuccessful in a failedrelationship? And most of the time it's because you've shown interest in what they had to say and vice versa and you connect. In fact, you could even become, it can sound even more cynical than that. Someone can turn around and you ask her where are you from?

[00:05:40] And they might say, Oh, let's use the States. Oh, I'm from New York. Oh, I've been to New York several times. I stayed there. Whereabouts are you from? And before you know it, the person quoting where they're from, has felt really validated in the fact that they're from somewhere. And someone knows that place. Could be a tiny little town.

[00:05:59] And I use things like that. Whenever I'm talking to anybody new on having, building a relationship with anybody, I use those really skillful, but important strategies. I'll find out where someone from, in fact, recently on a deal that I'm, I'm hoping to do at the moment, I'm on my fourth meeting, and the guy said to me, David, can I ask you a question?

[00:06:23] I said, sure. Anything. How much does my business turn, this is our fourth meeting. He said, how much does my business ( inaudible)

[00:06:30] We've spoken now three times on the phone. We've had one zoom. Nothing was less than an hour. So we've had four hours of dialogue. I'm selling a business, you're looking to buy a business. You don't know how much I'm turning over. I said, because to me right now, it's the least important part of this process.

[00:06:45] I want to get to know you. I want to get to see if I can like you. I want to see if you can like me. Because we're going to be dealing with each other for a few years. You're going to be deferred payments. I'm going to be ringing you up saying this Can you help me? So right now it's not important.

[00:06:57] And I cannot stress it. I cannot stress enough to anybody who's interested in this space. Focus on your, your interpersonal skills because that is more important than any Excel spreadsheet with any series of numbers on it and far more important. 

[00:07:10] Ronald Skelton: Yeah. Yeah. There's some level of economics to communication. Meaning that when two things trade value, somebody is saying that the thing that you're selling me is more valuable than the cash I'm handing you.

[00:07:21] And the same thing happens in conversation. If you want to have rapport or you want to build a relation to something. What I'm sharing with you or what I'm giving you, not even just sharing, because a lot of time it's just listening and validating the other person. What I'm exchanging to you is more valuable than your time.

[00:07:37] And if the other person doesn't get that at the end of the conversation, like they didn't see the value, Hey, this person really listened to me. They got me and they understood me. Or this person really provided me valid information and moved my game forward or whatever the, is they value in the moment.

[00:07:51] And those needs change over time. Then there wasn't a fair exchange and the person, you didn't move the relationship forward. And, if you really look down to the brass tacks of thing, there's an economics to conversation. When I get off the phone with somebody, it's like, did I add value to their life?

[00:08:05] That's a conversation I have with myself, right? Did I just waste that person's oxygen and an hour of their time or did I add value to their life? Did I impart knowledge that they needed? Did I give them validation and understanding? Or to listen, be just an ear, sometimes it's just listening and.

[00:08:21] David Green: Being real. Being absolutely real and being congruent are such a vital part of this because I guess it's not rocket science to fake it. And I don't want this to sound like, blowing smoke up someone's backside just because you want to get a good deal. It doesn't work that way. No, you have to be someone who's genuinely interested in other people. 

[00:08:41] And things can fall flat on your face really quickly. If you don't get into that whole idea of, in the end people sell to people. And so I would encourage anybody. Just focus on being the best version of you, give a shit, and I guarantee you, as that comes out of you, more people, the probability of people wanting to speak with you and deal with you increases. Versus someone who says, Hey man, send us over your three year figures.

[00:09:12] Give us your balance sheet. And I'll get back to you. That's not memorable. That's typical.

[00:09:18] Ronald Skelton: Yeah. And, it's interesting as if you, I would say there's a small percentage of people out there who are really super alpha and they just want to get down to brass tacks. If you talk to them, they think everybody else is wasting time.

[00:09:29] I'm saying small percentage, that's probably five or 10 percent of the people on the planet. 90 percent of the people out there, they want you to understand who they are, what they built, why they built it, who their customers are, why their customers are important, why they're important to their customers.

[00:09:44] There's this huge story that you not only need to hear, but you need to understand and really get. And,yeah, you can make them an offer and you can get numbers on it, but you're not really going to get to the closing table on these deals if that seller doesn't feel like you're a safe pair of hands. And a safe pair of hands is not the stroke of a check. 

[00:10:04] Safe pair of hands is, it's built in conversations, it's built in relationships, it's built in trust. And that's built in time. Credibility. Yeah. 

[00:10:15] David Green: So I, I've bought a business and I found out afterwards of the two other people that were putting offers forward. I was paying the least. I was the only one who's putting no money down.

[00:10:30] They were offering cash and whatever. The few mistakes they made, which I didn't, is A, they were all about the numbers and weren't memorable. They took no time in trying to establish what is Nirvana to this vendor? What is this vendor trying to achieve? What does this seller actually want out of all this?

[00:10:52] And what I found out, which the others too failed to understand was, the legacy of the business overriding the assets in it, which he was offered. He was offered a lot of money for the plot of land the business was on for development. And he turned them down. I found that out by really having two, three zoom meetings and understanding everything about this guy's world.

[00:11:15] And when, I was the only one out of the party of three out of the three different, people interested that knew that his best friend was his business partner forever. He sadly died 10 years ago. He still has a picture on his wall. I talked about renaming the building after his friend, if I was to buy it. We're doing this deal.

[00:11:34] Sorry, we did this deal. Because I understood what this guy's hopes for the future of the business work. And I took that time to establish that 

[00:11:42] Ronald Skelton: I'm going to oversimplify it here. Somebody asked me the other day, how do you get started? And I told them to use what, how and why? And what I mean by that?

[00:11:50] Yeah, it's always asking questions. And I just, yeah. You said, how do I start the first conversation? First call is first call. I want you to do in the first call is what, how and why? And if the guy, there's two different types of people. If he starts telling you about family and stuff, dive into that. If he starts telling you about, if he's really business oriented, dive into that, and then that's what he's like, this guy's really business oriented.

[00:12:13] I said, great on business running guys. Ask him what did they build? And when he gets, when he tells you all about what he built, ask him how he built it. Ask, how did you know how questions, how did you do this? How did you do that? And then when he really gets down to that, he knows you're listening. Then find out why.

[00:12:28] Why did you do it this way? Why did you do that? And out of those three questions, you'll understand enough about his business that he'll feel that you understand him and what he's building. And,it's as simple as that, right? It's, the what, the how and the why. You could be amazed at how far you get that.

[00:12:42] And then,if you start to get a lot of people are personal. So on that side of it, I wouldn't do how, why, if somebody is personal. I'd start asking the same question over and over again.

[00:12:51] We spend all the time they want to spend until you can tell that they're, that you got why they're doing what they're doing. Because most of the time, why is more important than, then the mechanics of it.

[00:13:01] David Green: I mean, your listeners should know that, you don't ask a bunch of questions and be authentically interested in someone. Then they hand you the keys. Obviously you have to then beyond go and as you quite rightly said earlier, you have to exhibit, you've got the skill, the appetite, and the design, the credibility to actually take on what they've built their legacy.

[00:13:21] And, take it further, take it forward. You have to be able to show that. But to get past that initial gatekeeper or to be considered one of the person's favorite choices, I think this is vital. And I think going back on the asking questions, you've said the who, the how, the why, and you're absolutely right.

[00:13:38] I try and even simplify even further if I can, by just saying, ask questions in life. You'll never, ever go wrong if all you do. I've said to my team over the years in my companies, my managers, my directors, if all you do is ask questions to your team, I guarantee you, you'll have a team of individuals that are fighting to, and will die for you.

[00:13:56] They'll literally run through a brick wall for you. And I guess the mistake, senior managers do is, they're quick to tell someone what they should be doing. And that's easy. I actually coined that years ago, called it lazy management. It's such lazy, parenting's similar for me. Just tell your kids no, don't do that or go there.

[00:14:15] It's just such lazy parenting, lazy management. Whereas if you use the strategy that I live and die by, it's just ask questions. Just ask questions because you know something people are smart. People are smart and know the answers. They might be lazy. They might lack ambition. They may lack the resources to and the energy to go and do perhaps what people in our space go and do.

[00:14:36] But that doesn't take away the fact they might be, they're really smart and resourceful. So I champion this strategy, not just in what I do internally in the business as well. Just ask questions and I don't think I've instructed someone for over 20 years in what they should be doing. Someone comes to me and say, David, I've got this thing.

[00:14:57] What'd you think? Okay. That's a great challenge. What do you think? What do you think? And I've had, I genuinely over the years, I've had people tell me an answer that I know wouldn't work. And so give that a go. Give that a go. 

[00:15:08] Ronald Skelton: That'd be a tough one for me. But yeah, 

[00:15:10] David Green: I've done it. And actually I had a business I sold to my ex partners some years ago in retail. We built up a store of, a chain of stores around the UK and I sold out to my ex partner. And, one of my managers in Scotland actually, she wanted to buy, she wanted a sauce on the shelves, a certain product. She didn't know that we'd already tried, tried it here in the South.

[00:15:31] They didn't work. She called me up and said, I found this product. This reps coming to see me. And she sent me the images of it. It made me smile because we'd already done it. And she said, can I try it? I said, sure, give it a go. She was gonna spend two, 3000 quid, on trying this product. Mike's partner in a meeting started going crazy at me.

[00:15:47] He said, are you fucking mental? Why would you allow her to spend this much? I said, relax, man. Just fucking relax. Okay, because what I don't want to do is I don't want to switch off from someone who cares deeply about her area in her store. I don't want to switch off that kind of ambition and that thinking of she's like an entrepreneur that works for somebody.

[00:16:08] Why would you switch that off for a couple of grand? Which we could just soon resell in a sale or whatever. We won't lose money. And the amount by saying yes to her and I knew it didn't work and she's always not working. I said, who gives a shit? Just move it back to shop. You'll sell it. Give it, give some away, as part of a promotion.

[00:16:24] It doesn't matter. The amount of stuff, cool stuff, she did find them because you just show that you trust their opinion. You care about what they think. You want to quote them. People love to be quoted. 

[00:16:36] Oh, you know what Ron said? Who doesn't like that shit? And so I think it's the most powerful tool you can give your circle. Whether it's someone you're in business trying to buy or your staff or your colleagues. Just ask questions and let them show you their credibility, to our credibility around the business.

[00:16:51] Let them show you their credentials. I think it's exciting way to behave. 

[00:16:55] Ronald Skelton: And you never know what's going to really kick off in one market versus another. Even in one customer setting, versus another. Good example I seen was, when I was much younger and much thinner, I used to teach martial arts and partaking it and to see if it worked. I would bounce in some of the roughest clubs in town with the goal of never happened to physically touch anybody.

[00:17:16] So never have to swing anyway. But, I've seen reps come in with, alcohol and stuff and, try to sell at one, one particular club. They were just like, Hey, we got this new drink. And then, do big promotions and stuff and nothing happens. It flops. Nobody likes it. Nobody wants it.

[00:17:31] And then the very next weekend they're across the street at another club, which I worked at same owner, even same owner on both of them. So I'd be over there, helping the door there, doing what I wanted to do over there. Mostly because my students bounce too. And I was looking out for them.

[00:17:44] And all of a sudden that takes off and it's ordered there week after week after week. And then they start going across the street and like hey, do you guys carry this?

[00:17:51] And it was just a different presentation that got everybody to like it. It's like anybody that likes Red Bull is absolutely told me that I liked it. The first time they tasted it is full of shit. That stuff is horrible tasting, but people drink it regularly. And I still drink one when I'm really tired or whatever.

[00:18:09] And I can't find the energy drink. I don't like, cause I know what it does. It gives you a wing. But it's one of those things that like, I don't think anybody likes the first time they ever have a beer. I think the beer has an acquired taste.

[00:18:19] So, that said, it's the perception and presentation is different. So I like what you did. You might be shocked at that little market that she's in, love that particular product, or maybe she presented it different, put it in a different spot.

[00:18:33] People tried it, now that they tried it, they liked it, right? You never know. Product placement is huge inside of something like shops and stuff too. Maybe it was just to add a better visibility or whatever. 

[00:18:41] David Green: Someone, like we do when we're trying to show a vendor that we are a safe pair of hands. Someone that you employ has to also, they have responsibility to gain your trust.

[00:18:52] They have to show credibility that they're a safe pair of hands. That they've got good judgment. They care about your product, your brand, your business, et cetera. And I think,I wouldn't take on this complete stranger and the next day say I've found this thing, I've spent a hundred thousand quid, of course not, it's insanity.

[00:19:06] I think if, I did this experiment once in one of my businesses a few years ago now. We used to, before COVID, we used to clean in loads of different hotels. And I remember being on, visiting this customer, on an airport. And I was speaking to the manager and I said, I seem to be chatting away and I think we passed a certain house at a, room attendant.

[00:19:27] And I said, Oh, how's that guy doing? And she said, Oh, he drives me insane. I said, what do you mean? She said, you know what? If I've told him once, I've told him a thousand times. That he keeps putting the pillows on wrong for brand standards. They have these different brands over there, brand standards. And he keeps doing it wrong.

[00:19:44] And I've told him a thousand times. Our area manager was there as well actually. So I said, mind if I give it a go? Now they didn't know me. The staff didn't know who I was. I could have been undercover boss. They were with me. So they thought I, they had no clue who I was, but obviously when a guy, they're with your manager and your area manager and this guy, I would wear jeans, a shirt and a blazer.

[00:20:05] I look what I look like. So there's going to be some, anticipation. Who's this guy? Anyway, I very quickly made him ease and I said to her, listen, you two guys, you mustn't say a word. All I want you to do is I want you to count with your fingers behind your back, how many questions I ask. 

[00:20:21] And reference, if anything else comes out of my mouth, other than a question, and we'll talk about it later. I said to the guy, good morning. And that's the only thing after they said to me was the only two words that came out of my mouth that wasn't a question. And then I said, what's your name? How are you?

[00:20:37] Where are you from? And I asked him, did you do this room? Do you do these floors? Do you like the job you've done? I really like that. I think Mel said I like the job you did. So that was another thing. But anyway, I asked him, I took him into the offended, one of his offending rooms where the pillars weren't right.

[00:20:52] And I said to him, did you do this room? He said, yes. I said, do you like it? He said, yes. I said, me too. Great. Went back into another room that was done and I, in the end, my final question was, which room out of the two do you prefer? He said, I prefer this one. Why? He said, the pillows aren't right in the other one.

[00:21:11] And I didn't say a word. I said, thank you for your time. It's been a pleasure meeting you. And we left. And I checked in every few weeks. She said he's never got it wrong since.

[00:21:21] Because people, I think kids work that, kids minds work that way as well. You can tell all you want.

[00:21:28] But actually asking questions, it's that old saying, if all you ever do is ask questions, it's very difficult to go wrong.

[00:21:34] Ronald Skelton: I find myself doing this one with adults. I do it with my kids all the time, but I do adults too. And somebody tells me they don't know how to do something. And I know they probably do.

[00:21:41] One of my favorite things to do is, okay, if you did know how to do what would be your first step? So my kids would go, Hey dad, can you help me do this? Okay. That's something you can do on your own. Well, I don't know how. I was like, if you did know how, what would be your first step? What would you do first?

[00:21:55] I don't know how. I go, if you did know how, what would be the first step you took? What would you do first? Okay. They do that step. And I was like, okay, what would you do next? And it doesn't always turn out perfect at the other end of it, but we usually get it done. And my daughter's, like I said, I told you before, she is incredibly intelligent.

[00:22:11] She'd asked me one time, what do you do that dad? I said, cause it's my, it's not my job in life to teach you what to think. It's my job in life to make sure you know how to think and how to think things through. You'll gain. information and knowledge, which are definitely two different things. And intelligence, the combination between the three.

[00:22:27] And you'll learn how to use them, interact with them together. If all I tell you is everything on exactly the answer to every question, all you have is knowledge. You don't have the intelligence. You have information, basically. In my world, information is, you got facts. Knowledge is, you got a little bit of details, you know how it works together. So there's a little depth to your facts. And intelligence is how to use those and implement them and do something with them. And I said, for you to be intelligent, I just need you to be able to know how to think, not what to think. And we do that on a regular basis, and I think that's something you give all your employees by asking questions is, you're not telling them what to think or what to do. You're making them solve problems, making them come up with solutions, trusting that they'll get it right and showing them that they can think.

[00:23:14] David Green: I couldn't agree more. And if you want to sort of where this should be, I guess. How this all relates to the business world. I haven't acquired a business yet that hasn't at the very least doubled in year one, at the very least. The biggest success I think was one business grew three and a half fold in under 18 months.

[00:23:34] And the strategy was, it couldn't have been simpler. Because normally, particularly if you're buying a business off of a baby boomer, the chances are they're not going to really be into these kinds of strategies and ways of thinking and empowerment and autonomy and accountability. That generation just didn't think that way.

[00:23:56] This is, I'm the boss. You do as I say, or you fuck off. That was literally how, the mentality of post war babies that ended up, in the fifties and sixties starting their own business and they're all ready to retire now. So you're inheriting a team that haven't had that kind of, mostly that feeling of I'm now got the freedom to make decisions.

[00:24:13] And sometimes there's a bit of imposter syndrome when they're given that freedom. But as an example, I inherited a team on a business I bought, we closed that office down. We moved them into our office. I took him into a meeting and I said, we grabbed a cup of tea. We put some biscuits on the table. 

[00:24:29] We just started chatting through. And I'd obviously met them all through the due diligence stage. And I said to him, look, we're going to just run an exercise now, this morning. And it didn't go for as long. I don't care if it takes all day. It's not important. I want you to protect, you guys have been in this company for years.

[00:24:42] I want you to pretend I didn't buy this business. I want you to pretend you bought this business. Because my, I reckon, for a number of years, probably as long as you've been here, there's been a whole bunch of stuff you've wanted to do, but just weren't able to. So you're going to pretend that all I am, and I had a flip chart and a felt tip pen, I'm just the guy that's going to write your ideas down.

[00:25:02] And I promise you this, anything you put down there that you think is important for this business's welfare, we're going to do. And we ended up having two pages of all these different ideas. Now, you have to probably understand, if you're a multiple business owner, you'll have some insights that someone who's worked for someone for years won't have.

[00:25:20] That's fine. And no point did I say to them, you've forgotten this or what about that? Never. If I felt that they were going in directions where they were missing certain things out, you've just got to be smart enough to ask the right questions to steer that ship. And everything is directional because as human beings, and I'm not sure what side of the brain is which, but I guarantee you, if you, I don't know if one of the ideas was, one of the ideas was I need to go and see more customers. 

[00:25:48] I need to be out with customers because when I go out with customers, we just get so many more orders. But my old boss never let me do it. Now, this idea came up from the senior manager. I guarantee you this.

[00:26:00] If I would have said to him, I want you to go and see more people. Cause you should be more customers. It wouldn't have worked and he wouldn't have worked as well. He may have worked a bit, but it wouldn't have worked as well. I know people need to go and see customers. It's a vital part, business development management.

[00:26:15] You have to go and see your customers. The fact that he said it, it worked amazingly. So direction, rather than ordering. Declaration, that person declaring, this is what we should be doing, is so much more powerful than you as the boss saying, I want you to do this. 

[00:26:33] Ronald Skelton: It is. Because then they own it. If you can ask the right question where it's their idea. Or they have a, not even just their idea, an idea, any idea that moves the game forward. They have ownership of the idea and they have a level of commitment to it that they would not have if you just said, Hey, Do this. I'm a big fan of questions.

[00:26:50] As a matter of fact, my team gets sick of, I think maybe they don't, but my team is used to. Every single meeting ends with the same three, right? I asked the same, a lot of the times on these podcasts, when I tell you we're done, it's in the show and I'll ask you the same thing.

[00:27:04] What did we do really well? What did we miss? And what can we do better? So it's usually the other word orders. What did we do? what can we do better? And what do we totally miss? What do we just like totally drop the ball on? And we document those things. And if you stay like that and you just do that with everything, I do that with my employees.

[00:27:19] What did you do really well this week? Great. Let's celebrate your work. Cause my guys are all remote. Some of my people haven't talked to in a month. And, I chat with them on Slack anytime they need me. And, I'd let them do their work. What did you do really well this week?

[00:27:30] I want to celebrate. That's really cool. Show it to me. And we celebrate wins. What could you have done better? When they'll give me some things that they did, they could do better. I said, cool. Do you need any resources for that?

[00:27:38] Yeah. How do we make that a win for next week? And then they're like, okay, what did we totally miss? What should we have done this week? We just didn't have time to get to, or, and then it tells me if I need more manpower. Or if we're dropping the same ball every week. And with those three questions I can pretty much run these things totally remotely.

[00:27:54] David Green: You know how crazy I am Ron? When we've employed people over the years in one of our head offices, in an interview, people often ask, sure it's the same in the States, what are my hours? Very standard question. I'm so, almost analytically stuck and committed to this process.

[00:28:12] I answer every time, I have no idea. I don't know how long it's going to take to do your work. If you can do all this required in two hours, take the rest of the week off. I couldn't care less. I stick to because, and again, there's something really powerful in this, in my opinion, there is, you don't want to employ babies.

[00:28:30] You don't want to employ sheep. You don't want to employ someone who's just collecting a paycheck. You want to employ people that are going to think for themselves and drive your business forward. I have the same thing when I've taken on,salespeople in my life and they say, what's, what's my targets.

[00:28:44] I don't know. I don't know what you want to learn. You tell me. And so it's another question. And I've every time I've employed someone, I've made them go away. Think about your product. Think about what you're trying to sell. Think about how many you think you can sell. And once you'd self target, give me a six month aggregate. 

[00:29:00] Give me a six month, a target that you're trying to go for. And either you're going to be brilliant, bang on, or you're going to undersell yourself or you're going to be overambitious. And we'll just judge you on that. As long as you take responsibility for these choices, I don't give a shit.

[00:29:13] But I'm utterly committed to, surrounding myself with people that actually want to be treated like an adult. The one who really, live in a space where they're completely autonomous, but they're prepared as adults to take responsibility for their failings. I'm committed to it. 

[00:29:33] Ronald Skelton: How many business, I'm leading up to something here.

[00:29:35] Cause I've got a curious, satisfy my own curiosity. How many businesses currently do you have an ownership interest in? 

[00:29:41] David Green: Seven different businesses, I'd say. 

[00:29:43] Ronald Skelton: Yeah. Okay, so you have ownership interest in. So you have some level of commitment to seven businesses succeeding. You have an ownership interest in all of them.

[00:29:52] How many hours per week did those, if you absolutely, you weren't doing other deals and other stuff, trying to go out and do these meetings and stuff. How many hours a week does it require managing those seven, of your time? 

[00:30:05] David Green: Honestly, very few. 

[00:30:08] Ronald Skelton: So, I was almost a hundred percent that was gonna be the answer.

[00:30:10] The reason is because you've empowered all those people. Right? 

[00:30:13] David Green: Absolutely. I check in. That's what I do. Most of my time, and because I don't see it as work, I see it as my hobby( inaudible). Came to about a week ago for a few weeks. Obviously on zoom calls and doing whatnot while I was away because it's my hobby. Most of my time is on new opportunities. And that's the difference between working in a business and working on a business. 

[00:30:33] Ronald Skelton: And then, are you JV'd on a lot of those? Or are you a primary owner of most of them?

[00:30:38] David Green: Oh yeah, I'm JV'd on, yeah, all but one. I have a facilities management company and I'm not JV'd on it. But, the senior team are gifted some secondary shares, because of, not to incentivize them just because their loyalty over the years and how hard they work and how much they care and how they drive this business forward for me.

[00:31:03] And so, they were gifted that. But pretty much else is a JV partners on it and, but the bit that's my responsibility is not even my responsibility because my infrastructure takes care of my side of the story. And that didn't happen overnight. Before I did all this, I started a business up.

[00:31:21] I started many businesses up. And I worked in them and I worked my butt off. And let me tell you, this is far more fun. 

[00:31:29] Ronald Skelton: Yeah, it is. I like embracing the, the questions game. I need to do it more. I do have a tendency to be, I have to pre train. We were talking about this a little bit before the show.

[00:31:39] I can be a little too direct sometimes and a little, not insensitive. I just don't think to ask social questions of employees and stuff. It's just, I'm not wired the same way most people are in a social setting. I get along with anybody. I can actually start a conversation with the guy behind me in Starbucks or whatever and chat with anybody about everything.

[00:31:55] My wife freaks out because she's like, I've never seen anybody open up to people as fast as people open up to you. And I like, what do you mean? Within 30 seconds, that lady was telling you her whole life story. I was like, it's because I was listening. There are people are so unused to not being heard when they realize you're truly listening and that you listen you're listening you do care. You're intrigued, you're curious at least. You're curious about who they are and their life, they'll just open up to you.

[00:32:25] David Green: We've known each other for a while now and what occurs to me and it's such an important skill, and I would advise anybody. And I mean anybody who wants to get into this space. We all have an ego of sorts, but if you want to do what we do, get it under control and get it under control quick.

[00:32:42] If you have any kind of, if you like self esteem issues, if you suffer a little bit from self doubt, get that sorted. Because I can guarantee you in the absence of that can commit to it, it will just come out. It will just come out, not in as much that it's highlighted on a, on a billboard, but it would just come out in the kind of, in the spirit of your fledgling relationship with who you're trying to buy from.

[00:33:09] And they just won't see you as a safe pair of hands. You need to be able to exhibit you're someone who has massive humility and your credentials then should flow. And I cannot stress that enough. When I look with a JV partner, I'm just doing one at the moment, we're just putting in, me and a guy are putting in a couple of businesses.

[00:33:26] A new opportunity that will take me up to nine. A solar energy company and a vape business. And I said to him, let's do a holdings company and we'll build a website on the back of it. And he said, what do you want to call it? I said, I didn't give a shit. Call it your kid's names.

[00:33:40] It doesn't bother me. I couldn't care less. So he mocked up a few ideas and he's his first name is J mines D and he said, I looked at DJ first, but it doesn't sound right. You don't need the D. I don't care. All I care about is we are ethically taken. I don't want to make, when we take a business off someone, I want to do it ethically.

[00:33:56] I want to make sure that we're paying. I'm good at doing deals. I'm excellent doing deals, but all I care about is we do that properly and we do what we say we're going to do,and we're honorable. That's all I care about. And we make loads of money.

[00:34:10] Obviously. What it's called makes no difference to me. I couldn't care less. So I think I just encourage anybody who gets to listen to me, ramble on as I have done. If you think you are, the professional in the room, you're the expert, you gotta lose that. Hide it as best you can. And be genuinely interested in what the other person has to say.

[00:34:29] Do that, gain humility, grow your humility, and authentically give a shit. You can enter this space, you'll enter it well. 

[00:34:38] Ronald Skelton: People are so much more than what they are on the surface too. I'll give you a good example, earlier this week, it's not out yet. I got approached a lot of times on the show, people reach out to me with PR firm type of things where they say, Hey, I got a potential guest for your show.

[00:34:50] Okay. I'll take a look at it. This profile was an author. He had written a book on a managerial stuff. And I was like, okay. We talk about buying, growing and selling companies. So an operator's playbook falls in that a little bit, but I just wasn't intrigued the first time they sent it over to me. So they send it over to me again and I say, I responded and say, I told you last time we talk about buying, growing, and selling a company. And she's like, yeah, this guy's got a little bit of experience in that and stuff. You should Google his name. So I Googled the name and I still found okay, he teaches a couple of classes over at Stanford.

[00:35:21] And,you know what? And he's been the CEO of a couple of companies and they sold. Cool. He's done some exits. Put him on the show list. Let's get him on here. Within the first two minutes of him on the show, I realized he was the second person ever to do a search fund. He is the lead professor at Stanford still to this day. Teaching entrepreneurship through acquisition.

[00:35:42] The book he's written is absolutely amazing. He is friends with the first person who ever did a search fund. Over at Harvard, he's on the phone with the guys who create, took a tow truck dispatch company and turn it into the one of the largest insurance companies in the planet through a search fund. Insurance or something like that.

[00:36:00] Where they insure electronic devices here in the United States. He knows everybody he's the OG of search funds. They buried the lead, but I would have never known that if I just wasn't intrigued and curious about there's something there, like who is this guy. And because even only when you start googling his name, he doesn't have a very, deep social profile and stuff. So I totally won the shot to the stars like hey look I mean, if you ever want help rewriting your one sheets, your one sheet to be on these shows let me know. 

[00:36:28] You'd be an absolute treasure to be on any show about mergers and acquisitions. He has funded or been part of the funding of over 200 search funds, and some of them are recognizable names. He was on the board of directors of that insurance company when they had 200 plus employees.

[00:36:44] Now they're a multi billion dollar public company. He's got just insane amount of knowledge and experience. And I told him no, the first time, because of a weak bio that somebody sent me.

[00:36:56] David Green: Amazing. And you're genuinely interested in people which is to your strength. You're genuinely interested and I am too.

[00:37:02] I'm genuinely interested. I ask you questions because I'm genuinely interested in the end. And I think I hope I've exhibited in this pod cast that, people do business with people. In the end I've successfully bought businesses and i'm currently ahead and others I'm looking at. I've probably got about eight or nine that we're advanced negotiations on in different sectors. And the strategies we've talked about today has put me ahead of the curve with other, against other competitors, because I'm not making this up.

[00:37:30] I genuinely am interested in, who I'm buying from, what their story is, what's going on. The why's, the where's, the what not's. I think it's massively important.

[00:37:39] Ronald Skelton: I think that if this is, we were talking about this before the show too. This isn't a normal behavior for us, most people anyway, to lead with questions, ask questions. To not try to answer or not try to think of the answer to things or make a statement midway through to actually actively listen to another human being.

[00:37:59] It's an acquired skill. Just like certain things are acquired tastes. This is acquired skill. I would say get out there and practice it. There's chamber meetings. I don't know if you guys have like B2B networking and chamber, social settings where business owners hang out. Even if you go there and you have no intention on trying to make a sale.

[00:38:17] Get out there and just figure out how to be curious about who people are, what they've built, why they built it. I used to play a game when I was practicing this, I would put up about a two rolls of, a dollar's worth of pennies, two rolls of pennies in one pocket.

[00:38:30] And,I'd walk around and I'd have, some of them in my hand and what I do, the other pocket was empty and I would just be talking to people and I realized I couldn't do this very long. I had to switch a different strategy because I was like, now some people want to shake hands when COVID was over, right?

[00:38:43] We're starting to want to shake hands again. But for a little while there, like you just like knuckle bump or whatever. And, people are okay with that. But anyway, every time I ask a question of somebody, I got to move one over. But if I made a statement or try to prove myself or give information about who I was, I had to move two back. 

[00:39:01] So mentally keep track of that some other way than the penny method. I was trying to figure out how to keep track of it throughout the day. But, at the end of the day, count your score. So did you ask more questions and two times more questions than you did tell people about yourself? You'll be the favorite person in the room if you truly just ask questions and learn about others.

[00:39:18] It's insane how well people adapt to that.

[00:39:20] David Green: You're speaking my language and I think that's one of the things why I very quickly connected to you when I first came on your show. Because I'm just, I'm so committed to this. And I just want to be clear as well, because it sounds like a strategy. And it could easily be deconstructed as a strategy. 

[00:39:39] But I think if it lacks authenticity in the end, you'll get found out. Actively listening, I actively care, I want to know the backstory. I want to know about their life. Maybe it's a bit nosy, I don't know. But yeah, no, you're absolutely speaking my language. I love it.

[00:39:54] Ronald Skelton: And, it's interesting because in certain environments, I do really well with that. And in certain environments, I just, I was telling you before the show, I was business partners for two years before I realized that the person was married. Never asked him. But it was never important to them because I always, when I asked them like, Hey, how's your day going or whatever, never brought it up, never talked about it.

[00:40:13] So we always talked about what was important to them. I asked questions, but because they never went there, I just never even thought, it wasn't like I thought, well, that must be an uncomfortable topic. I'd never even, I just never went there because that's not where they wanted to go.

[00:40:25] And, I think a lot of it has to do, it's an acquired skill. I've been trying to do this for a long time. You've been doing this for a long time. I still catch myself trying to tell people more about myself than I should. That's why I play these games where I track it. I've got mental markers or something.

[00:40:42] I move from one pocket to the other. And when I walk away, I might move something over. And I'm like, okay. So at the end of the day, did I listen more than I talk? Or at the end of the day that I provide more value than I put out. That I consume more knowledge than I gave.

[00:40:55] David Green: Certainly when you're trying to buy a business and even if you're just managing people, I think you, your responsibilities to make is to ensure that you're asking more questions than you're answering.

[00:41:06] In fact, I got asked this recently on my own show. My weekly entrepreneurial group I run. What happens if you start asking about, the vendor's life and whatever, and you're genuinely interested. And they say, oh yeah, look, I wanna know about you. What is it you wanna do and how do you wanna do this?

[00:41:23] And they said, oh, I got asked this question. I didn't know what to say. I said, come on, just be yourself. . I get asked that frequently. I said, listen, I can, and I do tell people, listen. If you get me started, I won't stop talking because that's what I'm like. And I don't want to bore you to tears.

[00:41:37] And apart from anything else, I'm not the important one here. And I'm not. As the buyer, you're not the important one. The person who is selling their business, something that they've run or started and had for 10, 20, sometimes 40 plus years they are the only really important person in the room. And you have to make them feel that way because they deserve to feel that way.

[00:41:58] And you can very quickly turn the conversation back on them, and getting them talking about themselves. And again, it's important to understand the depth, you can go so deep on this process and this strategy. There's so many levels to it. If you're going to meet someone's needs, you've got to establish what those needs are.

[00:42:15] How the hell do you find out what someone's needs are? If you're talking at them all the time, telling them what you're going to do for them. I had one guy on my, on my zoom. About a month ago, I think it was. And he was telling me this process, how it unraveled. And it was largely, he found out how much the business did, what the profit was.

[00:42:32] And he then went on to this diatribe of what he was going to do for him. And when he finished, I said to him, any of this process, have you actually established what it is they're trying to achieve? He said, well, they want to sell their business. 

[00:42:45] I said, you don't know that. He said, well, I don't. I got introduced to them. They wanna sell their business. Some broker, they got on with a broker, I said, do you know, I mean, I say seven, that's now 'cause I've sold a bunch in the past. But in my career, I've been introduced to stuff by a broker. In fact, I currently own a CCTV or I say I'm an equitable stakeholder in a cctv fire securities business.

[00:43:08] That was introduced to me by a broker. He didn't want to sell. I thought he did, but he's only by talking to him and unraveling about his life and his story. They actually really loved his business. He's just nowhere to take it next. So I said, I'll tell you what we're going to do it together. And he's had a whole new lease of life.

[00:43:25] That business has, I've been involved now for about three, four months. And I'm confident that by the time we get to 12 months, I'd have doubled his business for him. Without acquisition, just organically. And so, find out what someone's needs are. You don't find out anyone's needs by just talking at them.

[00:43:43] Hey, I've done this, I've done that, I own this business, I own that business. And I'm going to give you this, I'm going to do that, and the person's sitting there thinking they don't know anything about me, or what I want to achieve. 

[00:43:52] Ronald Skelton: I've seen times where like somebody had truly an, like we're talking about that, here's a good example where, where we're getting into who they are, what they're, what's important in their lives.

[00:44:01] I'm trying to get to their needs and they'll authentically ask,I don't know anything about you. Tell me something interesting about yourself. I was like, okay, I'll give you one. Cause I can tell you really want something to connect to here. And I give them something like I live a little bit of an interesting life.

[00:44:15] We're what would you would call digital nomads. We own a tiny home. We can take it anywhere in the world. We live in the studio. You see me sitting in here as mobile. I can pick it up and take it with me when I leave. We're in the Redwood forest, Northern California, and we can go to the ocean or a vineyard anytime we want.

[00:44:28] But I give them something that, would be interesting. And then I said, cool, let's go back to you. And it's just because they wanted, I don't like to say, well, no, I'm not important. Cause they had a need, it felt like it was one sided conversation. I give them something that's you'll connect with this.

[00:44:45] David Green: You're there to connect. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's part of being real and congruent in any relationship. You think about, when someone met their spouse, their husband, their wife, whatever. That relationship is unlikely to be, balanced and successful long term if it's one sided.

[00:45:01] If you only know all about your partner's life, their family, and they know nothing about yours, it may last for all kinds of psychological reasons, which we won't go into now. We run out of time, running out of time. But, they may last. Does that mean they're successful? Of course it doesn't.

[00:45:19] I think I said to as well before the show, I think I could probably run a three day seminar, on rapport, confidence, building, credibility, building, connection, relationship building in the M and A space. I reckon I could build a program that could last three days and it'd be a valuable stuff because that's how important this is.

[00:45:41] Ronald Skelton: And it would have a lot of exercises in it. There's a lot of role play, getting people to.

[00:45:48] David Green: We should do it Ron. 

[00:45:49] Ronald Skelton: Yeah, we should do, we should get some groups together in our different networks and say, you're not, you have to ask, answer every question with a question.

[00:45:57] You can say no more than five words strung together that isn't in the form of a question. We make a game of it. And, then we send them out to things like, you can go to one BNI meeting for free. You can go to a lot of these business networking meetings for free and stuff. Send them out into the world and say, Hey, go to these meetings, meet unique individuals, and you're never allowed to say more than five consecutive words that's not a question. 

[00:46:17] I think their game would be moved so much where, I need to challenge myself to, I haven't done it in a long time. But I need to challenge myself into that space again. 

[00:46:24] David Green: Let's hook on a call another time. You and I will talk about how we can make that work because I think we can have a lot of fun.

[00:46:29] It'd be a dream of mine actually to run a group like that. And, see if we can get as many people together, that are uncomfortable in this space because they just are more comfortable hiding behind the facts, the data. And you're nothing special there. You're just very typical. 

[00:46:47] Ronald Skelton: I didn't even know that's what we were going to talk about today.

[00:46:49] And, my newsletter that I wrote yesterday that went out this morning was, the Deeper section of the newsletter. It says E Q is your secret weapon in M and a deals is what it is, what it's about. Emotional quadrant, basically emotional intelligence. Being able to listen to other people, control your own emotions, not try to display your ego.

[00:47:06] Just that, the whole concept of EQ. EQ isway more valuable than IQ and 90 percent of business transaction, so. If somebody wants to work with you, chat with you, show a business idea to you, what's a good way or just connect with you in some way or what? 

[00:47:20] David Green: So I think I put on your, my bio yesterday, I think I put my email address, mY website, LinkedIn's on there. I'm happy if anybody wants to jump on our, it's UK time, 2:00 PM every Friday. We have a dozen plus people that come along and we just literally spend an hour talking about what they get going on. We have four or five people from the States coming every week now and it's an accountability group.

[00:47:44] So I'm just prompting people to go out and do shit, get shit done. And they'll come to the table what they're working on. So anyone is welcome to join the more, the merrier I say. It's a really growing, exciting little, joint venture network group. And yeah, pop all those deals on and I'll chat to anyone about anything, anytime. So it'd be my pleasure. 

[00:48:05] Ronald Skelton: And I'll make sure those are all in the show notes so people can find them. And, I think, we'll call that a show. 

[00:48:10] David Green: Thank you. Thanks for having me. 

[00:48:12] Ronald Skelton: All right. Hang out for just a second.