E206: Walker's Acquisition Advantage: Buy Smarter, Win Bigger with Proven Buy Then Build Strategy

[00:00:00] Ronald Skelton: Hello and welcome to the How2Exit Podcast. Today I'm here with Walker Deibel. He is the best selling author of the book, Buy Then Build. And, just a icon in the space. A lot of you guys know who this is, but I'm looking forward to the conversation with you today, man. So thank you for being here.

[00:00:15] Walker Deibel: Ron, thanks so much for having me. I love your show. It's been too long since I was here before. Thanks for the invitation.

[00:00:21] Ronald Skelton: You know, it's funny is a, we usually can bring people back every four or five months. And then you said something or posted something on a recent, recently and I was like, man, I don't know what he's up to, but why has it been so long? It's been almost two years. I looked at it. You were one of my first guests that, like you kind of made the show.

Cause I got you as a guest and everything, man, you got Walker on there. So, you know,I had to get on there too. So everybody, it was a lot easier to get a cool guest. I even had some of the people from, uh, never split the difference when his coaches came on and like, part of my pitch is like, well, I've had Walker Deibel on there.

You should come and join, you know? So, Thank you for helping make the show. I just want to give you the kudos there.

[00:00:57] Walker Deibel: A lot of people think you made the show, but you and I know the secret, Ron.

[00:01:00] Ronald Skelton: Is, uh, it's who you're associated with. It's, uh, the, the power of social, what do they call it? Social proof, right? I didn't show him a picture with me. You know, I do a screen capture with you beside me and I'm like, look who I hang out with now. But, uh, no, thank you for being here. We're going to learn a lot today.

The jokes always, you know, Hey, you were born and then you ended up on a show about mergers and acquisitions. How in the hell did you end up on this show? What got you to where you are today. So people, so anybody that, for God forbid, they don't know who you are, kind of fill them in on the, like kind of who you are and what you do.

[00:01:32] Walker Deibel: Yeah. So Ronald, I mean, the reason that I ended up on a podcast for M&A, at the end of the day is because I'm a really bad entrepreneur. Okay. And we'll get to that, but, you know, basically, in a nutshell,I started buying companies, it'll be 20 years next month. Was when I initiated my first official search for a business.

That word didn't exist. My girlfriend's mom thought I was unemployed and so did I. Um, but you know, eventually figured it out and sort of navigated this like opaque and fragmented industry and like got my first deal. Ran that as CEO for seven years. At the whole time being like, no, like entrepreneurs, like I hang out with entrepreneurs, they don't understand what I'm doing.

Like they think I'm playing a different game, but I'm right there with them. Like, and so it frustrated me that they didn't understand what I was doing. After I sold that first business, I used the proceeds and went out and bought six more and, during which time I took every, private market certification program out there.

I was a stockbroker in my prior life, so I knew the public markets. And I really felt like it, you know, a book needed to be written to sort of introduce this concept to entrepreneurs. Spent four and a half years writing Buy Then build. Became a Wall Street Journal, USA Today, bestseller. It was adopted by a bunch of universities.

Next thing I know I'm keynote at MIT University.You know, built, built a, uh, an accelerator to help people, people do it. Today, I've probably acquired nine companies of my own outright. Probably another two dozen as an investor. I've consulted on over 300 acquisitions and I could talk some more, but I think you get the point.

[00:03:11] Ronald Skelton: And you guys, and you have a team running Acquisition Labs, right? You actually have a team teaching other people how to do this based off the, all this knowledge you've gained over the years and experience. So, 

[00:03:21] Walker Deibel: Yeah. With acquisition lab, I mean, Acquisition Lab is interesting. Like, like the whole concept was how do we build the Y combinator in the space, right? Like, like no, no one was really doing this. There was some courses out there, but there wasn't a real program in my opinion. You,you talked to a lot of people.

Okay. But, but it's, it's one of these where I was like, let's anchor in world class education and then really like, we have the only vetted program out there that I'm aware of. We tell 70 percent of our applicants to the Acquisition Lab that they're not a fit and we're not going to take their money and let them in.

So we're very, we're very specific about, who gets in and we're not trying to be rude. I just have an allergy to these Facebook groups with a thousand people in them and only one person's actually going to do anything because it just means everyone gets lost, right? So it's, there's a misalignment to me. We've got a really strong group. But, uh,

[00:04:13] Ronald Skelton: I used to own a, a training center for training people on how to do real estate. Actually own the local RIA at the same time. And it was heartbreaking that this industry statistics for information, products and courses and stuff like that is 3%. So 97 people that go through do nothing at all and 3 percent do something.

And one or two of those three, maybe do something significant. And,

[00:04:36] Walker Deibel: We've got about 30% percent close rate. From getting accepted to actually buying a business is about 30 percent lab.

[00:04:42] Ronald Skelton: Incredible. That's 10 X, uh, the industry average. I got to the point where I had other people teaching at the Entrepreneur Center for teaching real estate. But, if I came into the room, our classes were free. The first few classes we do, we had like a six or eight week series that was free.

And if I came in there and you could, some people were taking it two or three cycles. Like they would come back and take the same like, 'cause there was week one was one thing, week two was another. And I would see 'em, they were in week two, three times now. If I caught you in week two on the second or third time, I made you get up the front of the room and teach it. And, uh, like, the fastest way to learn something is to have to teach it. So, uh.

[00:05:18] Walker Deibel: That's right.

[00:05:19] Ronald Skelton: Some of the guys did really well and they ended up being teachers for us.

Some of them I had to take back over. They were too nervous in front of the crowd. But, we had a couple guys that were just really good at it. 

[00:05:27] Walker Deibel: That's awesome.

[00:05:28] Ronald Skelton: But I get it, man. So I like what you're doing. I like the pre screening and I had a couple of people in my network where I was like, Hey, I'm, I got Walker coming back on today. Who, what questions you have of him? And a lot of these guys are in that low down, no down, negotiate contract for equity, all those types of programs that are asking stuff like that.

Like that's not the right guy. This guy wants you to be bankable. this is a leverage buyout bankable type of structure. Yeah, he can do creative deals like the rest of you. But, you got to have some skin in the game. He can show you how to raise capital. Just like, you know, a lot of these other guys do and stuff and bring investors in for it.

Yeah. Can I speak? I don't want to interrupt you. I'm sorry.

[00:06:03] Walker Deibel: No, go for it, man. I just, I already kind of knew in my mind, like that's not going to be the kind of question he wants to answer. Well, fine. And we can talk about it. But here's the, here's the problem. Like even my marketing team is like, can we like, can you just like do a little talk on like how to buy a business without any money? And I'm like, no, I'm not gonna do that because that's the headline. That's the clickbait that gets the clicks, okay. And I mean you can look at what the Google searches have been for the last 20 years and like that's the, that's the term, right?

It's like I get something extremely valuable for nothing. How do I make a ton of money with no effort and no money? And it's like, that's not this game. If you actually want to get from Miami to California, and I ask you, do you know what a plane is? And you're like, no, I'm like, cool. I like, I can help you.

Do you have a pair of shoes? And you're like, or do you have a bike? No. Okay. Do you have a pair of shoes? No. Okay. No problem. Give me, give me your admission fee and I'll teach you everything you need to get to California. And then you're then telling, teaching people how to walk barefoot to California.

Can you do it? Yes. Yes, you can. But what we need is some is our people who are going to succeed. And the people that are going to succeed are not the ones getting set up for, trying to get that out sized, kind of, kind of gain, right? And the way that you get those deals, in my experience, is by being in the game and proving yourself and being the guy that's willing to sort of take risks that other people aren't going to do, right.

And then once you make that leap, you get those deals. But if you just go in and be like, I just don't, I'm not a fan of that.

[00:07:41] Ronald Skelton: Uh, I call it unicorn hunting. You're hunting, it's like the unicorn in the startup space is like, uh,you're, you're going to invest in a hundred companies. One of them is gonna succeed, and they're going to be the unicorn that makes you a billion dollars. Well, there's unicorn hunting in this too.

You think you're going to go in zero down, no money down, no equity and the skin in the game, you're going to have to talk to a thousand business owners. And, yeah, there are others like, you know, you talked to enough people, you're going to find somebody that need, needs your skills and willing to hand the reins over to you, but it's not going to be easy.

And most people, the average person, as a matter of fact, probably 80, 90 percent of the people on this planet don't have the tenacity it takes to get that no money down deal.

[00:08:20] Walker Deibel: I would agree with that. I, it's also, yeah, it's also, in my opinion, at the scale in which it's been, spoken about the last couple of years, I actually feel like it's done tremendous damage in the industry. I feel like so many people are just getting their time wasted for people looking for that winning lottery ticket.

And it's like, that's not how you actually get this done. So, just say I agree with you. But here's the thing is, just going back to, to Buy Then Build and sort of the foundations. Like it doesn't take much to get a lot. Okay. And yes, I'm going to say you need $100, 000 and people are, some people listening are going to be like, Oh, well, you know, Jesus might as well, like, shit gold.

Can I say that on the, yeah, but the thing is, is like, you can buy one of the largest 4 percent of companies in the country for a hundred thousand dollars out of pocket. Like, like that's not crazy. And the thing is, is like when, when you go out and you buy these, just to switch the game for a minute, if you go out and you buy a middle market company, 50 to a hundred million dollars, even if you use none of your own money, okay, you're still paying for the search and probably the diligence and everything else. 

So you're, you're at least out of pocket, a hundred thousand, even though you have no money in the thing, right? It's like, there's no cash infusion in the thing, but you still found the deal and brought it in as a, I guess, an independent sponsor in that, in that version of reality.

[00:09:40] Ronald Skelton: People don't get there. I didn't understand that there's, in the mid market, you're going to need a quality of earnings report, right.

[00:09:46] Walker Deibel: Oh yeah.

[00:09:47] Ronald Skelton: 10 grand on the cheap side, you know. 

[00:09:49] Walker Deibel: Oh, On the, yeah. 

[00:09:50] Ronald Skelton: A hundred grand can be right there if you're talking about a, you know, a real mid market company doing $30 million a year and how, that has switched their booking system three times in their history.

You know, you're gonna, you're gonna really spend some money on some of this stuff. And people don't get that. Now, I'm not going to discredit the fact that it's possible. It happens, and it happens often, but a lot of times it's because, the people I know that are getting it done are doing more of a partials, right?

They're coming in and taking 20 percent of a company, working for equity, and maybe buying the whole thing over time. But they're, they're coming in and doing what they call contract for equity or, uh, YBOs, working buyout, that type of, they're,they're working improving themselves in the beginning.

And it's not true acquisition on day one. You're not acquiring and taking 100 percent control on day one.

[00:10:35] Walker Deibel: It's, I mean, the only times it's ever really happened in my experience are, you know, when someone dies and like the CPA calls a friend of mine, cause they're like, Hey, don't you do e commerce or whatever? Cause this guy just died in his Porsche with, a hundred grand in cash in the trunk and a pound of Coke.

Real story. But, and you know, they, they got the deal and it was, but here's, here's the other sort of like kind of big myth that has taken over the space. If you don't mind, it's related, which is, this also serve as a lore to seller financing. And the truth is, is when you go back, okay, like seller financing is what we did kind of, I'll definitely say, definitely prior to 2013, and it was still like really happening a lot, like pre 2016. 

But the thing is, is that like, loans for acquisitions were not issued by the SBA. Not for a business acquisition with no collateral, with an entrepreneur that hadn't made any money before. Like, like, no personal balance sheet, like I'm just, you know, I'm 30 years old or, you know, I'm 20 to 30 years old. I haven't done anything yet.

And I'm trying to buy this business and it doesn't have any collateral and I don't have any collateral. The banks were like, good luck. And deals couldn't get done without seller financing. So seller financing was the solution to not having debt. During that time, you would have a lot of conversations and you wouldn't get anywhere because they would figure out, Oh, this guy doesn't have the money.

And so it was just like chunk, chunk, like you were just removed as you went. And then every once in a while, you'd find that person that was like, okay, kind of your point, I like this person. They're willing to work. I'm willing to help them get the equity. I'm willing to sell in partials as we go through time or whatever.

And then, you know, it really, it really wasn't until January 1st of 2016, when the SBA went full tilt and they're like, okay, look, if you're, if you're a United States citizen or green card holder or whatever, and you're buying a U S based business, then we're going to go ahead and we will lend you up to $5 million, up to 90 percent of the total transaction.

All you need to do is sign this personal guarantee and you're good. And it completely solved the problem. And more businesses were not only able to transact. But the thing was, was seller financing, kind of went, went the way of the, uh, wagon wheel for a while. And it's been sort of reintroduced.

And the truth, Ron, is that I don't know that I've ever even done a deal with seller financing. I mean, very, very small. Like I've had some deferred payments and things like that. The bank will give you the money. For me, for me, okay, and this is going to like, a lot of people are gonna be like, what? For me, I don't like owing the seller anything.

I want them fully paid out and I want them owing me. Okay. For the first like 30 to 60 days, because, and then I'm going to let them, right, I let them ride off. I really don't want them having a right to my business. Like, Hey, what, like, how are we doing? Like, is I hear business is slow. Now they're all worried that like, I'm going to miss a payment or something, or God forbid I do, right? Or whatever.

Like, it's like, I can work with the bank. I can do that. And I believe, but I cannot prove two things. One, I believe that our federal government came out and said, okay, we are going to allow these loans for this business transaction to occur because it's a total of like 45 percent of the U S economy is owned by baby boomers and needs to change hands, in these small businesses.

Can you imagine what would happen? If like all of, if like half the economy, like needed to be rebuilt. It's massive. And the second, yeah, and the, and the second thing is that, I think that banks are the ones that have sort of reintroduced and repushed seller financing to the point that now the SBA is really promoting it again, as of December. But like, but I think that they were the ones really pushing it because they are, they, they're able to take the seller and put them behind.

So in a bad situation, right, where, where maybe the buyer is under a little bit of stress, okay. They're able to say, okay, stop paying the seller because I'm going to increase your debt service coverage ratio, and now my reports look fine, right? So the bank will give you all of the money, right?

And for whatever reason, people seem to really want to holdthe seller, you know, tied the seller down in terms of like seller financing, but I think it's way overstated.

[00:14:54] Ronald Skelton: I, out of all the horror stories I've heard over the years, doing this podcast, interviewing people, some of the worst ones were seller finance deals. Where, uh, two, two cases, a seller finance deal and where the seller was still the leaseholder of the real estate. And one of them was horrible is a mechanic shop.

He didn't like the growth strategies of new buyer had implemented and he would go in and because he still was the, he owned the building he was, renting, they were renting from him. He felt he could come in there and talk to the employees that he wanted any time. It's his building. He can come talk to him anytime.

And there was a loyalty issue, right? You're the new CEO. The other guy has been there. It was sabotaging him. He basically, he was having a hard time getting his employees to do what he wanted to do to grow the way he wanted to grow it because the other guy still has so much influence over the business.

[00:15:45] Walker Deibel: So I can get that, right? I can get that sometimes you just, you don't necessarily want the previous owner hanging around.If you've never bought a business before and you buy one and you've got a seller note and the transition and the, and they own the building or whatever, it sucks. Like, I will just tell you like a week in, you'll be walking down the hallway and you'll hear some people whispering in one of the offices or something.

You'll look in and it's like the owner and one of, the former owner and one of the employees, and they're whispering. Guess what they're whispering about. It's you. So you need to download that person's brain and get them out of the building because this is now your business. And that, and I think I, yeah.

Tying that seller to your business is not something that's going to be a benefit long term.

[00:16:31] Ronald Skelton: The way to, the way to avoid that is that deep rapport building before it starts and just really not doing deal. If you're going to have the seller involved, you just got to look at him and go until I pay him off, he's kind of a partner, could I be a partner with this guy? And that, that's something you can't just decide overnight.

That takes time. I think partnerships in business are more stressful and more, it takes a lot more out of a human being to be a partner in a business sometimes. And it takes them to be married because if you think about it, you spend more time very often with your business partner than you do your actual spouse, right?

You get to see the spouse on the night and the weekends and,40, 50, 60 hours a week, if you're running a business, maybe more. You're there shoulder to shoulder with the, uh, with the partner. So, yeah, I would, I still look at caution when I, when the previous seller is going to be involved. Is this somebody that could really be a compliment to me and be a true partner in this business?

Cause technically they are until they're paid in full. Whether you want to admit it or not, like, you know, I've got full control. Like, yeah, you got full control, but they still have the hearts and souls of every employee that's worked for them for 30 years.

[00:17:37] Walker Deibel: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, it's, there's, there's, yeah, there's truth in that. I think that, it's one of these where it's a challenging time for employees. Trying to prove themselves to you as the new owner. They're trying to figure out,the shakeup that's kind of happening,but yeah.

[00:17:54] Ronald Skelton: I have one, one question here. 

[00:17:56] Walker Deibel: Oh, can I, can I, you said, I remember what I was going to say, because you said something about the building rapport with the seller. Okay.It was going through what I figured out was, you know, whenever I would, potentially be interested in a business, I would sort of set everything aside and kind of just talk.

I would just kind of just have a conversation with the person. And if it's the easiest way to move on, right? Like if, if I didn't like them or I didn't relate to them or like, I just, I didn't like the culture, I would just kind of move on because there's plenty of deals out there. And, um, it's one of these where, a good friend of mine bought a company and he didn't like the owner. And he was, he was working through due diligence and he was trying to work with the guy. And I was like, well, what's, what's going on? He's like, I just, I hate this guy. Like, I feel like he's lying. You know, like, like every time I talk to him, there's like, I feel like he's lying. And then like, I'll look at something else and then I'll like kind of catch him in like a little cutting the corners of the truth sort of situation.

And I'm like, what are you going to do? And he's like, well, this guy is clearly the problem. So I just need to get him out. And then I'll be able to fix it. And I was like, Oh, okay, that's interesting. And, I hadn't yet bought half a dozen companies or whatever. I maybe had one or two. And, he bought the company and what, the lesson I learned from it was that a business is sort of made in the image of its owner. Or its founder, or it's. whoever is managing it, you know, whatever, it's made in that image. That's who is setting the culture. And so what happened was, was that all of the employees, rather than helping him and helping the company and whatever, just sort of gave him enough rope. Okay. And within six months of acquiring the business, he almost went completely personally bankrupt.

And I mean, he, he edged out of it. And like, it ended up being like a good, you know, hardship story because no one died and no one went bankrupt, but man, it was close. And, there was months there where he was just in despair. It was terrible. But, uh, you know, on the flip side, I had someone call me yesterday and they said, Hey, we just want to talk to you because we received an offer for our business and we just need some consulting on like, if we went to market or like, is this a good offer?

You know, what's the deal? And, ultimately it was,it was the, the purchase price was fair, but the terms were in such favor to the buyer. That I was like, well, if you formally went to market, your terms are going to get better, like by a lot. But what I would tell you is like, just as an example, these terms are so good for the buyer that I would buy your company right now on this call.

With this LOI, right? And this was my second or third call with them. So I already knew them. Okay. I liked them. They were a referral to me from a friend of mine, like we just really hit it off. And it's a couple that owns it, you know? And so we just, we had an opportunity to get rapport and then they showed this LOI to me.

And I was in, and I went home last night and I was just thinking about it all night. I'm like, am I going to buy this company? Like I really might. I just had a meeting, a lunch meeting about it. And I was like, Hey, should I buy this company? And we're like, yeah, maybe we should. But I'm not usually, I don't usually go 24 hours and I'm still a maybe so well, I think, oh, but like, it might really be a yes.

We'll see. But, uh, to your point, Ron, I mean, I mean, If you trust the seller that like diligence for me happens so much quicker. And I think a lot of that have has to do with,I think that first time buyers, they're really overly weighted in analysis. They really want the spreadsheet to tell them that there's no danger.

And I think that anyone that's done this a number of times, just like in real estate, it's sort of like, if you've never done a fix and flip, I mean, you like, give yourself a headache 18 times over with a spreadsheet, trying to figure out what's going on. But after you've done two dozen of them, you're like, yep, this one. And you call your buddy and you're like, I made my offer and you go, right.

Cause you just know how to do it. And, uh, you don't, you don't get too hung up cause it's all about execution. 

[00:21:55] Ronald Skelton: I get what you say about the, you said that the, uh, the CEO sets the culture. A red flag with the business owner should be extremely more alarming than a red flag with almost anybody else or anything else inside of the business, because of what you said.

I evaluated a short evaluation. I was probably only 3 calls into him. An engineering firm out of Dallas. And during 1 of the calls, we're on a zoom call, somebody come in and gave the guy bad news, and he literally kicked the trash can across the room stream custom did total exorcist. And it hit me that, that was the 2nd or 3rd time in 3 calls. I seen him blow up. like really blow up.

[00:22:35] Walker Deibel: Got it.

[00:22:35] Ronald Skelton: And I just had to talk with him. I said, look, this isn't the right business for me. Like our financials are great. I said, I get that. I said, you understand though, you've created a culture that anybody that would work for you and with you tolerate and need the way that you manage.

It's just a small shop, less than a couple of dozen people. I don't manage that way. And I don't know how to move people who are used to being in that environment to the laid back, Zen type of mentality that I want to be in. And this is still when I hadn't realized I don't want to be a 60 hour a week operator.

I was still looking for one for me to operate. I just, sometimes you just gotta look at it and go, this, the leader creates the culture and if this is the way they behave, like your guy that, is, he had the red flags and then the guy kind of does micro lies on everything.

Then it probably means most of the employees are probably micro lying to him. He sets the culture. He sets the tone. And, um, just like I'm a big believer that, any red flags you see with that individual, the owner, other than the fact that they may be tired or burnout and wanting to retire, but you know,red flags as far as integrity management style or, those type of things that, that's huge.

Yeah. I'm sorry. I was just reminded that I recorded a video for my YouTube channel this morning and I was talking about something like this. So I just pulled up my notes to be like, what was it? And it was, I was talking about, it's sort of like the, the 8 reasons why you want to buy a more expensive business than a low priced business. Which sounds counterintuitive, but it was like all the reasons why.

[00:24:08] Walker Deibel: And one of them was, it was just sort of identifying the transaction, like the age old transaction gaps between a buyer and seller of any asset, right? The buyer just wants to pay nothing, and the seller wants the highest price possible. And the first order thinking tells you, well, this is too expensive.

And in business acquisition, it makes a lot of sense because the purchase price really is correlated directly to the risk that you're taking, right? I mean, that's the downside risk. But then, you know, the educated thinking is you told me the price and I'll tell you the terms. But then, then the experienced investor, okay, understands that fair prices of course have a range and that the ones at the high end have all of the things that you need that actually like de risk your acquisition.

So, you know, a lot of times I think that we take that real estate adage of, you make money when you buy into business acquisition and I actually don't think that's true. You make money when you sell on a business. Like you never talked to an entrepreneur and it's like, Oh man, we raised at the lowest valuation.Like, it's, it's all about the exit.

Like that's, that's the number that matters, right. I mean, that's your thing. So, and you know, real estate is, it's one of those things where the asset is going to have a pretty fixed top value. And then it's going to continue to grow between one and 3 percent annual. But it's not like this, like, like you can double the value of that building and the next, 24 months or something in a best case scenario. Whereas with businesses you really can. And it's typically the, the ones that trade at the higher prices that, that, that do that.

And, and I think, to weave it back to what we were talking about, it's sort of like savvy operators that run really well tuned businesses, tend to be intelligent and organized people, and they're not going to sell their most valuable asset just because like you call them and say, like, give me a hundred percent seller financing and I'll buy this from you. Like, that's not how that, that's going to go down.

[00:26:02] Ronald Skelton: It's interesting that there's a friend of mine who I meet with regularly. He's been on the show before. He's done 15 or 20 of these creative deals and put no money down, but he does, you know, five meetings a week, seven, six days a week. And that's how he gets those kinds of deals. And they're all work for equity type of structures.

Most of them, anyway. He's taken down some full companies, but usually he's bringing parcels in. And, uh, he said, you know,it's kind of funny that what you're pitching is you're calling these businesses on the no money down deals or these creative finance deals. You're calling a business owner and you say, look, I'm interested in taking over your business. I want to, I know you've been doing it for 30 years. I've got this brilliant idea. Once you hand it over to me, I'll run it better than you ever run it. I'll pay you payments out of the profits from it. And you don't get any money on day one. How does that sound to you?

In essence that, that you'll never say that directly, but in essence, that's what you're saying on these no money deal deals. And yeah, sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't, but you better have deep rapport, so deep rapport with that, that, they'll give you that business before they sell it for a profit to somebody else, because they really think you're the safe pair of hands.

You're the person, you've really got to, you really got to play your cards right. And it's a numbers game. But like, you know, we're going back to what we were talking about is, going out there and sourcing deals and figuring it out. I don't want to discredit the fact that all the money has to come directly from you too.

Cause I know people right now who are raising incredible amounts of money and they're taking down some big deals now because, they were able to do that raise. And, uh, there's, there's an art to that. So, yeah, you have to have, you may need a hundred thousand dollars, um, before you get started.

It may not have to be yours. It could be, you know, an investor. He could be a seasoned partner. There's some guys out there that are, willing to sponsor deals and,take an equity role in it. You're going to give up equity and you're going to have to take some direction because those guys that they're putting their money in it, they want to have a little bit of say in what's going on too.

But, uh, yeah, it is possible. 

[00:28:02] Walker Deibel: I bought the domain searchfund. com a number of years ago and I just had it. And it's one of these where, I just finally pulled it, like there's a company called, SIG, Search Investment Group that, and they do a lot of that sort of like down payment piece, but they're very sort of traditional search fund oriented in their profile and all the rest of it.

And I was going to start that business. And then they sort of did right after I started the lab. So I just was like, great, you guys do that. Wonderful. And I won't do it, but, there's sort of a gap in the market. And now that we've got like over 600 searchers at the lab, I think we've got probably a little, we probably have over a hundred full time people searching for a business right now.

And I'm like, okay, I need to start pulling money. Yeah. So I made some partnerships and, we are going to invest in individual deals. And so, um,the point of searchfund. com, which if you type it in today, it's not there, but you know, point of it is that we're actually going to pay this down payment for people who want to do these SBA deals, but like, don't have that kind of capital.

[00:29:05] Ronald Skelton: They been through your course. They've been vetted by you, you know, they're going to be a great operator and they found a good deal,that's a good solid investment. A lot of people, if you're not, if you've never been an investor that, the key to any investment is asymmetrical risk, right?

Minimal risk, big return. I think this is better than, I was in the real estate space for a long time. Minimal risk, down payment, that type of stuff. Or, sometimes, you know, I was the creative funding guy for real estate in our area. My role is the seller's always the bank, right?

When I bought them, I tried to convince the seller to be the bank to me. And when I sold them, I owner finance most of the houses I sold because the seller's the bank, right? And I didn't get that for myself. I hired some mentor and he said it and I adopted it. That said, this space, the asymmetrical risk is, is huge.

You could get in for a little bit of a money and with some creative and ingenuity and some, doing multiple acquisitions. You could have an exit beyond anything you would initially imagine if you haven't been in the space. This opens, there's a whole arbitrage game to the, inside of this, that a lot of people don't understand. There's milestones along here that you go from buying it two X, three X, to being able to sell it to an extra three X if you run it at the same level. 

[00:30:16] Walker Deibel: To being able to sell it six or seven X, cause you crossed a certain milestone. To be able to sell it 10 to 12 X, cause you got over the $10 million EBITDA milestone that woke up the giants. Ron like, it's a little strange cause I mean, I think I've, I think I could die in peace because I have met enough readers, readers of Buy Then Build. That have acquired, I would say billions in transactional value. Like just from people that I've met and talked to. And I met this one individual who, he bought an e comm business for like $400, 000 on, a website called Empire Flippers.

They do a really great job at these sort of like sub million dollar, like online businesses. And he grew it, in less than a three month, three year period, he, he grew it. And he, he was like, Hey, will you help me sell my business? And I was like, let's talk about it. You know, let's look at it.

And I sort of did evaluation and I was like, okay, we could sell this for like 24 million. Like no pro, like no problem. I could sell this for 24 million with one hand tying behind my back. I guess the only problem would be like, bank financing when it grows that fast, like could be a little, but like, I know the private lenders, like we can get this done. But then I started asking him more questions.

Like, well, why are you selling? And like, blah, you know, blah. And I found out that he's selling because he felt like he had to, because he was running out of inventory and the inventory investment was so big and so substantial that he couldn't keep feeding it. And I was like, okay. And I introduced him to someone in private equity who gave him a loan for his inventory.

It was no problem. He took some equity and got a whole bunch of cash and then they doubled it again. Ronald, they doubled it again. $48 million company valuation, and he bought it for $400, 000 in less than 5 years.

[00:32:11] Ronald Skelton: Wow. I catch myself negotiating myself out of deals to occasionally. I had a guy come to the commercial roofing companies. Similar problem commercial roofing problems have a cash flow issue because most of the commercial roofs are paid for by insurance companies. It can take them 90 to 120, 180 days to pay.

They got to buy all the supplies and pay their labor before they even do the job or as they do the job. So they're always, there'll be two or three jobs into it. And like, I don't have money to go get the materials to do the next job. So a guy called, say, I'm going to sell this thing. I'm not running the cashflow issues.

And I thought it was because he wasn't managing right. When I dug into it is because they had so many jobs lined up. They couldn't afford to do them. So I introduced them some people that would loan him the money. And,as I kind of negotiated myself, I should've got a finder's fee or something for the money.

But, I was like, no, you don't have a business that you need to sell. You, he loves what he's doing. And, uh, the guy I introduced him to has it and will, you know, took care of him. It's not cheap money, but like when you need it, you need it. 

[00:33:08] Walker Deibel: Yeah.

[00:33:09] Ronald Skelton: I, occasionally when you get in, that's part of this building rapport though. If he ever needs to sell, I promise you, he'll call me back. When he really wants to sell again, he'll call me back and he'll be bigger and probably better ran by that point too.

Because, my goal when I get on the phone with any business owner is, what are they trying to accomplish? What is their goal? You know, his problem wasn't I gotta sell, his problem was, I don't have the cash flow and the cash reserves to handle the growth in front of me. I was like, that's not an execution of like, Hey, I gotta have an exit plan right now.

That's a problem with like, there's just certain things you don't know that you don't know. There's people out there that will happily fund you.

[00:33:45] Walker Deibel: Yeah. I think it's one of these where,people like I've probably brokered the sell side about a hundred deals and it's where it's, I've really slowed down. I don't, I enjoy it a lot, but it's also one of these things where it's, it's not exactly aligned. It's like, now that I have this sort of like statistically significant experience in sell side, I'm not as interested in the incremental lessons anymore.

And it's not exactly as aligned with what it is that I'm building. But it, A, it keeps me sharp. And B, I just, I have access to tens of thousands of buyers. So like, I just had a call with a potential seller, you know, a couple hours ago, it was a referral from a friend and, okay, let's talk.

And to your point, Ron, I like, like I spent the whole beginning of the call like, listen, we're just going to work on your goal. Okay. And if I feel like I can help you achieve a,a realistic goal, then that aligns with what it is you want, then I'll tell you. But the truth is, is like, I don't care if you want to sell your business or not.

And then I spent most of my time trying to talk them out of it, but then if I can figure out what their real goal is and I'm like, okay, this actually aligns with what I know we can get in the market, then it's a, it's pretty easy for me to take that on because I can help them. I can achieve their goal.

I can usually beat it. And then we're satisfying, you know, the infinite demand by buyers for good businesses with realistic sellers that want to sell a business. 

[00:35:17] Ronald Skelton: You've been in this space long enough. You've been around a lot of people who are buying companies and selling companies and stuff. What are some of the key indicators like, I know in real estate I could, I got to the point where I could walk through our house and I kind of knew who the buyer was.

If I wasn't gonna rehab it myself,we did wholesale a bunch of our deals off. I could walk through and go, you know what, this is a house that Mark's gonna take or John's gonna take. I knew exactly like I, this requires too much work, but, and in it, and I knew how to adjust my bids because I knew what they would pay and how to make money on it using their math. There's got to be a skill set that you have now because you've interviewed and, and been with and people that want to be in your program. You've seen people successfully close. You've interviewed business sellers who, I use the word interview, but you've talked to business sellers who want to sell.

What are some of the key things you look at when you see these guys, start with the buyers that you know they're going to be doing, they're going to do well in this.

Is there some key traits or, tradable skills that people can work on to be really good at buying a company and getting the deal done?

[00:36:14] Walker Deibel: Okay. So there's, I mean, look, it's one of those where on the buy side, okay. Well, okay. I'm sorry. My, my brain's going two directions in terms of how to answer this question.

[00:36:26] Ronald Skelton: I did ask dual question to throw you off there. Let's start with the buyer's side.

[00:36:30] Walker Deibel: Yeah, well the buyers it's more like, it's more like I'm either representing a very specific company. So to your point, it's like, I know Mark. Mark's profile is going to buy this one. And so I'm looking for Mark. And like, I do that really well. In terms of at a mass level, in terms of like, you know,there's a billion people listening to your podcast now downloading this episode.

Thanks so much for having me on again, by the way, Ron. But it's like, you know, yeah, what would I sort of say to that? What I would say is, is like, the easy answer is repeat buyers. I mean, people that are in the game, I mean, those are the ones that have, they just reek of confidence and speed to closing.

Footnote, except when they don't. Meaning like, these big private equity companies that are like, oh, well that's legal over there and legal's like hammering you, you know. And it's like, man, you guys aren't saying the same thing, it's just exhausting. And they come in with their binder in the last day and say like, we got to retrade.

It's like, okay, I'm not doing that with you. But the thing is, is like, if I were to, if, if your question were aligned with, like first time buyers, like people like just being like, I'm really attracted to acquisition entrepreneurship and like the opportunity that exists and you know, there's $10 trillion occurring, like transferring in the next seven years.

And I just want to get my opportunity.what I would say to them is,it's sort of like,the people that are willing to learn and the people that are willing to do, and really the people that are willing to take calculated risk. And like, you can't, you can't, like the magic is not in the de risking.

It's in figuring out what is it that you bring to the table? Cause we can sit here and look at a business and look at all of the things. And, you know, Ron, I think I can look at a business and I think the biggest, like one of the biggest reasons why everyone keeps coming back to all the sessions that I run in the lab, is, and I've been told this many times. 

They're like, I see you walk through a business and you just, you'd pick up the risks and you pick up the growth opportunity, pick up exactly what I need to look at. And we just go through deals and we'll spend like 40 minutes on each deal. And it's like, you just, you look at, okay, right here.

Am I like, you need to identify the risks and be comfortable that you're going to be okay, being the one to navigate that if it goes that direction. And then you look at the growth opportunity and you figure out, am I the one that can go that direction? The thing is, is we all sit there and look at this business as if it's like a car driving from point A to point B, and we're just going to jump in and replace the driver. Once you jump in, that car is going wherever the hell you're driving it, right? And you might be driving it right into the ground, you might be driving it up the mountain, like, like, it's 100 percent you. Everything that happened before you got behind that wheel is slightly irrelevant. It has velocity, but it has nothing to do with the future of the company, very limited.

So, you know, it always says like in big, bold letters, like, like historical performance is no indicator of future results. And yet that's, we sit there and like, like grind through the Excel spreadsheets, trying to prove to ourselves that that's not true. And it's exactly what's going to happen.

So the trick is you have to figure out what you bring to the table. You have to look at what the growth opportunity is that that business provides. And then you need to be able to align those two things and make that leap of faith.

[00:39:51] Ronald Skelton: I love that. And I love the fact that it aligns with something I tell people on time. The leaner the profit margin and gross, gross or net, the better you better be running that company, right? When you buy a company, when you build a company, it's yours to figure out, does it have market product market fit?

Am I going to grow it? You got a high risk of failure, but it's yours to figure out when you buy a company, it's yours to ruin. And, there's, there's something to be said about like jumping in the driver's seat and trying to like keep it on course. I tell people it's like, what is the first thing I should do after I buy a company?

I said, probably nothing for the first 60 or 90 days. Just talk to the employees and figure out what they're doing and say, Hey, help me keep this going down the same road or tracks it's always been on and help me not derail this for the next, until I understand it. Once you understand it, then you make your adjustments.

And I often tell people, ask everybody in the, every employee at the company what they would do, what they would change and find which one of those changes align with the ones you kind of had in your mind and start there. Because people are extremely religious, not religious, resistance is the word I'm looking for.

People are extremely resistant to change. And if you're changing something, they wanted to change they're more on board with it. 

Like I'm going to say something totally unfair, but like I'm somehow inspired to share this thought. Which is you're asking like, how do you know what buyers, what a good, you know, like when I look at, sort of the new, a new, every cohort for the Acquisition Lab that comes in, I'm looking at everyone's profile and I'm reading the, how the interview went or whatever.

[00:41:19] Walker Deibel: And I'm, whenever I look at them, there's, it's sort of like, I look at people that got an MBA like 10 to 20 years ago. Okay. And they have some level of, like, former military experience. By the way, I have none, okay?

But the thing is, is like, I look at them, and I'm just like, all day long. Like, those guys are just gonna execute. I mean, they, they know how to jump out of the plane. They know how to jump out of the boat. They know how to, like, just run down the desert and make it happen, right? They put themselves in situations that are terrible.

And if not, it's, you know, drill, they drill, drill, drill. And they're organized and like, they just know how to execute. And, if they've got that, if they have that MBA and it's another 10 years past, you know, the experience is there, right. And now they're just looking for that opportunity to build their own.

And so it's a completely unfair statement. But it's like, if I see the MBA and military experience, I almost just like move on to the next person. Cause I know they're okay. I know they're great.

[00:42:19] Ronald Skelton: And it's unfair for me to agree with you because I'm prior military, military intelligence at that. And I have an MBA, right? So, yeah, you're right. You're 100 percent correct. Those are the best guys. But, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm a little bit biased on that one.

Let's go back to kind of what do you got going on now? Like I seen a deal go by or you're like, you had a story or a video you popped up saying you were, you attempted to take down or made a $200 million offer. And I thought, man, is he broke through the barrier?

Is he actually going after big game now? That's obviously, I don't know what they consider mid market, but I think that might even be slightly above the mid market range, right? 

[00:42:53] Walker Deibel: I mean, it's mid market is like 25 to 250 million, I think, something like that. I don't know. It's what I think. I mean, look,I think that it's interesting. Like,I think that there's a lot of emphasis put on things like size of the deal and quantity of deals done. 

In other words, like to me, you know, like Steve Jobs didn't need to own 18 companies all at once. Like, yeah, he left Apple for a little bit and like did, Next? When that was called and then he, Pixar. But really it was like, that was kind of a distraction and he came back and did Apple.

Like, it was like, I do one. Bill Gates did Microsoft and like, you know, I mean, people, like you look at the best ones and like, not everyone is Warren Buffett. So like, why do we all feel like, there's a member in the lab who I was like, I'm confused. Like I hear you talking and it just doesn't line up.

Like, did you close on a business? And he goes, yeah, I bought 16 companies last month. And I was like, I was like, no, you didn't. Like, I asked the follow up question and I got a smoke screen and I'm like, cool. I'm not, I don't know. But like, it was one of these where no one who is actually buying a company bought 16 companies last month.

Like, that's not happening. Okay. So I don't mean to be making a, an example of, of one of the members of the lab, it was just, it was one of those situations where I was like, I don't know what's going on with you in that case, but obviously very competent individual. But the other thing is, the other thing is like, if I say, yeah, I bought a company that was 200 million people take a step back.

And it's like, well, in my opinion, Ron, it's almost a, it's almost a bigger deal and potentially a better deal to buy that, one to $5 million business and own a hundred percent of it. When you buy a $200 million company, you are in real estate. It's the difference between buying a single family home that you own the whole thing of. 

Or maybe a small multifamily, like a, you know, a four plex or something, and you own a hundred percent of it versus going out and buying that, you know, luxury 250 unit, you know, I'm making numbers up. $70 million, kind of building. like,

[00:45:00] Ronald Skelton: Yeah, now you're in the syndication. You've raised money from 20 different people to do the down payment and banks are involved and you get a better, you probably get a bigger check out of selling the little small unit than you do out of selling the big multi family because it's, it's the same thing as, what do they call that?

When you raise it, when you're doing a startup and you have your capital stack or your, uh, I'll take another word here, but basically by, you know, yeah, I have a company we sold for 500. I actually seen this guy, I almost had him on the show. And then I realized he was, he was not an acquisition entrepreneur.

I was going to have him on here because the exit, his lawyer stopped him. He's like, yeah, we sold the company for $500 million. And I said, well, off air, before we get anywhere, what did you make? He says, I cleared six and a half million. I was like, and he's like, no, it's great. It's my life. Like, yeah, I get it, but it's still horrible.

You could have cleared up an SBA loan acquisition easily, right? And it would have been a lot less stressful and you didn't have, you wouldn't have to, you know, travel, work your butt off for 80 hours a week for the last 10 years, trying to raise capital and keep the thing alive so you could get to the exit.

That sounds like a horrible deal to me. And he just, he was puzzled that I'd even say that. But it is. It's a, you're, if you go over a certain number, you're, you almost have to bring in extra people for risk. That asymmetrical risk, right? You don't wanna, even if you had $200 million lying around, you're not gonna risk that portion.

That be, would be a significant portion of anybody short of even a billionaire's portfolio. If you've got $1 billion, $200 million acquisition's 20% of your holdings. So, you're going to bring out people in,

[00:46:30] Walker Deibel: Yeah. And I, and I think what, the point of that video was, and I mean, I have, I've told the line many times on the sort of like,20 to $100 million transaction, and this one just happened to be bigger. But the point was, was like, I know how to do it. I've just been so selective in doing it that I haven't done one.

And I think that the bigger thing is that, I think that if I were to do it right now, I don't know that I could take it on. Like I still have a portfolio of companies. I still run the lab. I'm working on another book. Like all of the things going, you know, all of the things, kind of all the plates, all the spinning plates, Ron. It's sort of like, you know, if I were to do that, then I'd kind of have to like, start ignoring and offloading everything else.

Or, kind of clean up and then do, do one big one and then start to build a portfolio that direction. But the concept, the concept here is that at the end of the day, there's really like three routes for the acquisition entrepreneur that like look very different from the outside, but are actually exactly the same.

With different economics. And the first one is that sort of like traditional search fund, right? Where it's like, I'm going to do an SBA business acquisition, but like, I'm not going to put any money into it because like, probably I'm a recent MBA grad from a very promising university and I can get some financing and put a board of directors around me and, give them a lot of equity and like not have a huge downside risk, but get a lot of upside gain for my lack of experience.

The second is, I'm experienced and I'm competent and I'm willing to take a calculated risk for my own thing. So I'm going to like, put some skin in the game, take an SBA loan and like buy a company myself. There's a petition out right now that they're willing to go up to like 10 million. They're pushing that or something,

[00:48:19] Ronald Skelton: I'm trying to on the air. I want to push them to do that. Even if they have to drop the, like they right now, they guarantee a certain percentage back to the bank as a security. Like even if they have to go, okay, we'll loan 90 percent of five, we'll earn 80 percent of 10. And I'd like to, I'd like them to go all the way up to the middle of market.

I'd love to see them do some type of product where they'll go all the way up to the $20 million and they cover the gap between private equity, what they're willing to buy. And we'll we're playing in. 'Cause there's a gap, still a big gap that's, it's hard to fill. In that $5 million to probably, even in some industries it's lower, but in some industries it's up to $20 million that the private equity doesn't dip down into.

And even if it's like a, they'll fund up to maybe it's 50 million or 50% of a $20 million deal, they're still bringing 10 million to the table. Now you gotta go raise some capital and bring some investors in and do some stuff. But I'm trying to,

[00:49:09] Walker Deibel: Be easier. SBA loan, honestly, it'll be easier. But that, that even that first option, that SBA, sorry, that search fund, traditional search fund option, they're going bigger than SBA, right? They're filling that middle space. They're going between, you know, six and 20 to 25 kind of thing. The third one is that independent sponsor route, right?

And that's where, again, you're putting in probably the same amount of money, if not a little more than an acquisition entrepreneur. Like if you want to use that word for that, than an SBA buyer. And what they're doing is, they're getting private capital, they're getting private equity.

They're pulling the operation team together. You know, it's more, it's more of a, capital allocator kind of rule, but they clearly are also going in as the operator, okay. Or pulling in the operator team and being more of a, private equity kind of role person and getting less of the equity in that instance.

It's almost like the reverse. Where an independent sponsor is sort of like, I'm the operator and I'm going to form the private equity company around me, as opposed to a private equity company hiring an operator and saying, look, we'll just give you 20 percent of this business to go operate it. So it's, it's almost like reverse engineering that from the other direction.

[00:50:21] Ronald Skelton: Yeah, I've learned a lot about those spaces just by interviewing. Like that's my thing now. So if I've, I have a group of people who I'm working with to help them acquire, of all things, cabinet making manufacturers. And, they're talking about raising capital. So I was like, Oh, let me see, like, I gotta learn about it.

I can't answer your questions yet, but give me a couple of weeks. So I interviewed a dozen people who have raised, hundreds of millions of dollars. And then I, you know, I read and I study too, but it's the best thing to do is to like find somebody that's been there or in the muck of it already. And go, what should I, What should I expect?

It's like, I love getting you on here and getting people on here that are just, they're in the muck of this business. And, just look across the, the virtual, you know, room here and say, what should I expect if I, I go down this path, what are the expectations of me? And then I, what are the expectations I should have of others? And learn, learn that, you can even learn from your own mistakes or other people's mistakes.

I just find it faster and a little more affordable to learn from, from other people's paths.

[00:51:18] Walker Deibel: Yeah. That's how people learn. I mean, it's, it's all about, I mean, you know, I almost hate to use the word community right now. But it's like, I feel like the biggest benefit that Acquisition Lab offers, for example, is everyone goes through an intensive, so it's like common language, like common tools, all that thing.

And then you see, you get a vetted group of people, put them, make all these commonalities. But then it gets you out of your living room or out of your kitchen. When you're sitting there by yourself, trying to make one of the most important financial decisions of your entire life and career, and you're just sitting there isolated and who are you going to talk to about that?

And so I think that, working through deals together is, you know, really how you apply that kind of higher order thinking, because you're taking in information, you're out there doing it, but then you're also able to work with other people in the same situation. I feel like, well, I feel like I really feel like people come to the lab to, like, learn from me and my team.

But at the end of the day, I feel like 80 percent of it is really just being in this community of people that are trying to get it all done together. And we're just, we're there to help and support, but they don't know that coming in, but they figure it out.

[00:52:32] Ronald Skelton: That said, you mentioned you're working on a new book and I don't want to overstep that because I swear you did such a good job on the, on the Buy Then Build. That if you wrote a book about grooming monkeys, even though I don't want a monkey and I don't want to learn how to groom it, I'd probably buy the book because that'd probably be the best book on growing monkeys there ever was.

What do you, what book are you working on?

[00:52:48] Walker Deibel: I'm not ready to talk about that just yet, but I guess I would say is there's been a couple of, there's been a couple of very obvious books that I should write. And I've sort of, I've sort of done,like a light pass on those. And it was sort of like incremental and too related to Buy Then Build.

And I even went out and bought all the domains for those books even when I bought, buythenbuild. com. And, instead it's sort of like, you know, we talked about like, size and quantity, right? And the thing is, is I feel like one of the biggest mistakes that I made was I ran out and I bought way too many companies way too fast.

Okay. And, that's a conversation for another day, but the thing is, is that like, there are, there are better ways to sort of, scale your business and use leverage in a way that can be of personal benefit without necessarily feeling like you need to go out and play the, the size and quantity game.

I'll just, that's so vague. But I'll just, I'll, I'll leave it at that and sort of say it's, it's going to be that direction.

[00:54:01] Ronald Skelton: All right. So I was curious what that was. So we'll,we'll just leave everybody in suspense of what the next book will be. And, since you mentioned earlier, it took four years to, to, uh, finish the Buy Then Build, we'll just assume in the next four years, there'll be another one out.

[00:54:15] Walker Deibel: It'll probably take that long. I mean, with everything going on. I mean, I could get a book done a year now, but like, ah, it's a heavy lift. I mean, you can't really do anything else to get that book done in a year.

You know, like right now I'm reading, um,Adam Grant has a book called Hidden Potential. And that's, that's what I'm reading right now. And like, Adam Grant, like, he's not a perfect example, because like, he actually is a teacher at Wharton. But if you look at him, he blocks his year off in a six months and six months, where he, he teaches, I guess, I guess he only teaches one semester, right?

So it'd be four months and then, the balance of the year, he's writing, but, um, it's, it's easy to be jealous of these,these authors that, you know, can spend the majority of their time authoring. But, uh, I, I would love to do that one day and hopefully I'll get there, but,too much to do in the meantime.

[00:55:03] Ronald Skelton: Well, you did such a good job on the first one. So, I always recommend it to people like, you know, if they, I think the only book I actually talked down about is the Harvard Business Review and it's just, I don't like the way they structured it inside of them. Other than that, there's a bunch of good books out there.

After interviewing you, I went through and interviewed 40, I think 47 or 48 authors, on this topic. So,

[00:55:24] Walker Deibel: Oh, awesome.

[00:55:24] Ronald Skelton: Uh, number one, it was low hanging fruit. Almost every author wants to talk about their book and what they're up to. So it was easy to get them on the podcast. And, you know, two, it's,I can gain from you.

And most of the time I can gain somebody within an hour of the podcast, the majority of what's in their book. And a lot of times I'll listen to the audio book if it's available on speed before I get 'em on here. So I got to ask in depth questions. So it was fun. That said, I don't think anybody's put together a better one.

I really don't. And I'm not just blowing hot air towards your way. I really respect what you wrote and what you have out there and everybody should own it. If you're in this space and you don't have it, it's kind of the guide to making this happen, so. 

[00:56:03] Walker Deibel: I mean, this is gonna sound so egotistical. Like, I went to this conference and like, I was not speaking. But it was all on M and A and like, you know, it was all small business M and A, right? Like I walk in and, and like immediately I was among people like that, like, people were kind of coming up to me and, you know, like I was having lunch with someone and they were like, what's your name?

What do you do? And then I told him and he was like, Oh my God, like I read your book. People are saying like, like the Buy Then Build, you know, like, like a model. It was just like, it was like my world. And we, I was at the bar afterwards with some of the people that I had met.

And this guy was sitting at the bar and he had this whole plan to like, go buy a business. And he had this whole thing. And I was listening to how he was describing it. And he was sort of describing it in a way, it was great. Cause it was in a way that like, as if I had never heard of this idea before.

But then, you know, someone that I was with was like, well, you read Buy Then Build, right? And he was like, what? No. And he had never heard of it. And he hadn't read it. And my first thought was, what the hell are you doing looking for a business to buy if you haven't read Buy Then Build? Like, it's like the fundamentals, man.

[00:57:09] Ronald Skelton: yeah,

[00:57:09] Walker Deibel: Like, shame on me for having that thought, but it was just kind of like, how can you possibly be out actually trying to do this if you haven't gone out and picked up the $20 items that are like just sitting there To help you get organized. Like that,that's not a good, that's not a good signal.

I mean, Ron, look, if someone doesn't have $17 to buy a paper copy, there's always the $7 ebook, right? But if you want free, I've got over a hundred videos on YouTube and they are not BS videos. I mean, it is frameworks.

[00:57:39] Ronald Skelton: It is

[00:57:40] Walker Deibel: Well, go to buythenbuild. com. There's all kinds of resources. We're revamping the newsletter and we already have pre written a couple of our long form articles in, uh, they're,they're really good. They're really good.

[00:57:55] Ronald Skelton: Perfect segue to where we need to be. It's we're, we're above the hour already. So let's just do that. How do people reach out to you, see your content and find your book and work with you if they want to be part of the Acquisition Lab? Or, uh, they got a business they want, want you to have your, you broker for them or whatever.

If they want to reach out to you, what's the best way for somebody to start that,

[00:58:14] Walker Deibel: It's real, yeah, it's real easy. Like, so if you want to reach out to me personally, LinkedIn is probably the best way to do it. Buythenbuild. com is a great place for free resources and like, accessing all kinds of stuff. And hopefully signing up for our newsletter. And then, um, YouTube is a great, spot for like hours and hours and hours of free information.

And then, acquisitionlab. com is where you would go to learn about that program, uh, to see if you're a fit for that. And I look, I'll just tell you, it's $8, 500. It's lifetime access. There's six coaching calls a week after the intensive. And our goal is to get you to closing. So, you know, the concept is if you are going to buy a million dollar business, I mean, 8, 500 bucks is, I mean, Ron, it's rounding error.

[00:58:58] Ronald Skelton: Yeah, it is. It's right. It's right in there.

[00:59:00] Walker Deibel: Yeah, it's funny because we get, when we do get like price point pushback, which is, you know, 8500 bucks is a big check, right? It's like, well, hold on a minute. It's always just kind of like, they're not thinking about it. Okay. This isn't a month long program. This isn't like some coaching program, right?

That we're trying to get you through. This is like a vetted community geared towards getting you to goal. I'll leave it at that. I'll leave it at that. We've had two returns requests in four years. And, uh, one of them was the guy didn't know how to use zoom. 

[00:59:29] Ronald Skelton: Right now who doesn't know how to use a computer at all, said he's got some great content and he knows how to record himself. And he's got a TV show he does in his local town, but he's trying to set up his own podcast. And I really liked the guy he's helped me out in this realm.

And so I understand that sometimes just, I finally asked him, said, do you have a teenager around or somebody that really knows computers that can sit with us while do this? Yeah, go find, go find a 10 year old. Cause we can get this done a lot quicker. I appreciate having you here today. I think we covered everything really well. I think we should call that a show, man.

[00:59:58] Walker Deibel: Thanks so much Ron. I had so much fun.